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Post by 44 on Jan 10, 2010 9:42:06 GMT 10
Had a great seat at the 14 nats on Saturday. Can anyone else who was there explain what all those balk calls in the QLD v SA game were for  Myself and many others were very confused about the over pedantic balk calls on pitchers from both teams. The coaches themselves seemed to be not understanding either. It was tough for the young pitchers from both teams in probably the biggest game of their life so far put under more pressure with such extreme interpretation of the Balk rule. Other than that, the HP Ump called a great game and very good strike zone. The game was very even with SA just edging QLD after a late innings comeback. QLD led most of the game and a cracking Home Run by baby Rams Bryce Collins and good pitching by both teams made for a entertaining game to watch. Good luck to the QLD boys for the rest of the Tourney.  |
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Post by wilderness on Jan 10, 2010 10:02:00 GMT 10
Hey RF44,
I couldn't make it to yesterday's game but I'm going today. What was the final score yesterday?
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Post by ramsrus on Jan 10, 2010 12:48:35 GMT 10
Mmmmmm, also (if I am adding up correctly) 20 BLKs at the U16 Nationals and 7 at the U18 Nationals in total so far. Is this a crackdown by the umpires?
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Post by 44 on Jan 10, 2010 16:23:31 GMT 10
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Post by oldmate on Jan 10, 2010 17:20:52 GMT 10
Pitchers are not allowed to double set. That is a balk. This is a national championship, not club ball.
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Post by QBUA on Jan 10, 2010 17:52:52 GMT 10
It's not exactly a crack down on Pitchers.
At the regionals, we are probably not calling enough balks, this is sometimes from the level of umpires volunteering for the regional championships.
That is the one game I seen yesterday.
At Nationals, see it, call it. The umpires at the nationals should be experienced enough to identify all balks, not just the common ones.
Yes, Oldmate, there were a few DOUBLE SETS, and alot of NO STOPS, not to forget the lefty that went to home plate with the body and picked off with the ball. It is open, to a persons position, distance and angle from the pitcher if there were any missed, or interpretated incorrectly or correctly as a balk or not a balk.
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Post by ramsrus on Jan 10, 2010 18:00:49 GMT 10
Seems like a lot of balks which highlights a need for clarification and training or retraining. Maybe something that could be added to the off season programs that hopefully will be available this year where the umpires could add value to the teaching? Agree that if they are balking it should be called and that less experienced umpires won't recognise it's happening.
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Post by 44 on Jan 10, 2010 18:06:27 GMT 10
It's not exactly a crack down on Pitchers. At the regionals, we are probably not calling enough balks, this is sometimes from the level of umpires volunteering for the regional championships. That is the one game I seen yesterday. At Nationals, see it, call it. The umpires at the nationals should be experienced enough to identify all balks, not just the common ones. Yes, Oldmate, there were a few DOUBLE SETS, and alot of NO STOPS, not to forget the lefty that went to home plate with the body and picked off with the ball. It is open, to a persons position, distance and angle from the pitcher if there were any missed, or interpretated incorrectly or correctly as a balk or not a balk. That is my point QBUA, at the Brisbane local level, i'll bet a lot of money these kids never got called on these Balks much if at all, or even QLD state titles. Warned maybe but called rarely. Conversely, watch MLB player Mariano Rivera Pitch and he Double Sets a lot and different actions on many deliveries, effectively "deceiving the batter", yet BALK never called on him at the MLB level because he pitches like that all the time and MLB Umps allow it. Confusing stuff for a 13 year old Pitcher maybe just graduating from Little League/U12. |
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Post by oldmate on Jan 10, 2010 22:47:27 GMT 10
true 44 but it is up to the coaching staff to educate these young pitchers, whether it be at club, regional or state level. All my pitchers who are fresh ot of LL get taught how to hold runners, how to pick off, how to mix up the timing of their deliveries, checking runners, balks, backing up, etc as we get into the U14 season. This is the exciting age group for these kids as it is now real baseball. Until we get people in positions who can teach these kids correct mechanics we will always have these problems.
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Post by 44 on Jan 11, 2010 6:36:01 GMT 10
true 44 but it is up to the coaching staff to educate these young pitchers, whether it be at club, regional or state level. All my pitchers who are fresh ot of LL get taught how to hold runners, how to pick off, how to mix up the timing of their deliveries, checking runners, balks, backing up, etc as we get into the U14 season. This is the exciting age group for these kids as it is now real baseball. Until we get people in positions who can teach these kids correct mechanics we will always have these problems. I agree entirely oldmate, as a weekend local Ump I intend to be a lot stricter on Balks especially for 2nd year 14s from now on. I have no problem with early season 1st year 14s getting a warning and explanation 1st but pull the trigger next time. Another thread on here suggested banning Balks entirely in 16.2's How ridiculous.  The big problem of course is most well meaning weekend Umpire parents at these junior levels have never played seniors themselves and do not fully understand balks as Senior Players and Umps do. |
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Post by snoball on Jan 11, 2010 7:15:05 GMT 10
The big problem of course is most well meaning weekend Umpire parents at these junior levels have never played seniors themselves
This is a problem throughout all baseball in Queensland. Contrary to what they will tell you -- even most "official blues" have not played sufficient games or played at a significant level to understand the game, be able to anticipate what might happen or keep up with the speed of the game well enough to make reasonable calls. Week in, week out, teams are getting shortchanged through lack of knowledge, fitness or experience. The level of umpiring is the worst it's ever been.
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Post by pope on Jan 11, 2010 8:12:31 GMT 10
The big problem of course is most well meaning weekend Umpire parents at these junior levels have never played seniors themselves and do not fully understand balks 44, you are correct here, but you also need to add in the coach's at club level. Many are parents who again haven't played the game before, and while they are doing their best, struggle with the many rules of the game, especially in the area of pitching. as Senior Players and Umps do. I am willing to bet many senior players don't know all the balk rules. Until I started coaching I didn't know all the different balks (And didn't care to be honest) as I didn't pitch. The only time it affected me was when the umpire called out balk and I got to advance one base! And I am sure there are plenty of senior players who don't pitch that are in the same boat today. |
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Post by oldmate on Jan 11, 2010 8:26:46 GMT 10
To be a coach you need to have min level 1. I personally think it is far too easy to obatin the level 1. we have many coaches in this game who are accredited and have no idea what they are doing. These people are teaching our young players how to play. Make the level 1 more in depth and incorporate some of the technical aspects of the game. Better yet, If you want to be a level 1 coach you must first be a level 0 umpire before you can sit your coaching level. Then at least you have some idea of the technical side. I have seen some of the coaches we have around Brisbane in all grades, and I just shake my head.
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Post by snoball on Jan 11, 2010 13:56:19 GMT 10
I agree with your view of Level 1 for coaching -- and especially for umpiring. I think we should give all umpires a basic test of elements of the game -- or at least have candidates show proof of knowledge of the game. We're getting guys this year who wouldn't have seen a dozen A grade games -- and now they're umpiring at Senior level.
I'm wondering, what other sports (basketball, league, gridiron, soccer, tennis, volleyball, hockey) have such a low supply of official umpires and rely upon clubs to do the umpiring. How many members does our umpire association have? 6? 8? Certainly not enough to cover all games. How do we fix that? What are we doing to increase numbers?
But, players seem happier when the official blues aren't there as players/coaches feel they don't get proper respect from them when they do officiate the games. It's a case of the umpires feeling that they are the only ones with the knowledge.That has been my experience -- at all levels, including nationals.
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Post by wilderness on Jan 11, 2010 15:04:24 GMT 10
At U-14 level, balks are a tough issue. In many strong club teams, they will have a couple of pitchers that have taken the mound for a couple of years, and they seem to cope quite well the whole issue of balks. (I'm not saying they don't balk, just that they seem more aware of what can be construed as a balk and don't seem to be phased too much when an umpire calls a balk).
However, at U-14 level many teams at club level are trying to push more and more of their team to take the mound, which is a good thing, but it means at U-14 level you have a lot more novice pitchers.
It seems to me that at U-14 club level, there ought to be more tolerance of balks because clearly the aim is to develop more pitchers. However at Nationals, where the aim is to showcase your best and fairest, there should be strict adherence to the rules.
If we are to teach our kids to pitch at nationals, then we need to coach THOSE children the fine details of balks etc. I think it would also be a good idea to teach this at state level too, with a dedicated pitching coach. I wouldn't be too fussy to teach this at club level, at U-14 I think that most of it would be lost on the new pitchers.
Importantly, you need DEDICATED pitching coaches for the representative teams at state and nationals.
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