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Post by QBUA on Jan 11, 2010 15:07:53 GMT 10
Snowball, you seem to have a very big opinion of a lot of things, since your so knowledgable, who are you people? Unfortunately, you are ready the map upsidedown.
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Post by QBUA on Jan 11, 2010 15:38:13 GMT 10
Good posting WILDERNESS
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Post by snoball on Jan 11, 2010 15:40:33 GMT 10
Oldmate and Snowball, you seem to have a very big opinion of a lot of things, since your so knowledgable, who are you people? Unfortunately, you are ready the map upsidedown.
And, I hope, we are entitled to our opinions. Mine is based on many, many years of playing, coaching and observing.
I don't understand your last statement -- you are ready the map . This doesn't make any sense to me.
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Post by JRA Qld2 on Jan 11, 2010 17:25:34 GMT 10
It does to me, it's obviously a typo, he meant reading the map upside down. You're either being smart or ignorant.
I don't know what you mean by saying official blues don't respect players or coaches. I would not be able to name one person on that QBUA roster that doesn't show respect to such people.
I respect your opinion snoball, but perhaps your opinion could be broadened a bit to the point of view of umpires and officials.
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Post by QBUA on Jan 11, 2010 17:38:10 GMT 10
The big problem of course is most well meaning weekend Umpire parents at these junior levels have never played seniors themselves This is a problem throughout all baseball in Queensland. Contrary to what they will tell you -- even most "official blues" have not played sufficient games or played at a significant level to understand the game, be able to anticipate what might happen or keep up with the speed of the game well enough to make reasonable calls. Week in, week out, teams are getting shortchanged through lack of knowledge, fitness or experience. The level of umpiring is the worst it's ever been. There is a well know fact in Australian umpiring that some of the best umpires come from those who have never played the game. They are not influenced from what they may have thought as a player. My apologies snoball, yes my spelling did get abit out of the zone, (are you reading the map upside down) I meant. We are not here to coach, iether on the field or on the internet. If a considerable group of Managers, especially Pitching Coaches wish to speak to our State Instructors, I'm sure we can set something out. We do not claim to have played professional league or anything like that, we do not claim to know more about baseball than you do snowball. We umpire for the love of the game, we umpire so others who are playing can enjoy the game, but within the Rules, if NO RULES, what is the point. Everyone knows who I am, but what I am reflecting on in your posting is; (it appears to me), that you are just attacking the umpires for calling or not calling balks. Yes, you can post you point of view, but I'm just alittle defencive in how you wish to do it. If you want to attack me, you know who I am, but I do not know who you are. I'm sure that 95% of umpires out there are trying to do the best job they can with the experience they have and the knowledge they have gained. What is your level of accreditation when it comes to umpiring please. With the DOUBLE SET, pitchers in brisbane use a move that can look like a double set, but if you are in a position such as B or C, only 20 feet from the pitchers hand, if they move slowly, but do not stop twice, its legal. If they stop and then move and stop again, then it is a double set. In regard to MLB, I can not comment, as I have not seen the pitcher or his actions, and I believe that the camera's may not focus close enough on their hands to accurately see a double set. That is a guess, I have not seen the footage. Balks are called on pitchers making illegal moves, pitchers can make various moves to decieve runners legally. That is not for me to teach here. Thanks
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Post by snoball on Jan 11, 2010 18:14:54 GMT 10
You have really missed the point of my post:
I agree with your view of Level 1 for coaching -- and especially for umpiring. I think we should give all umpires a basic test of elements of the game -- or at least have candidates show proof of knowledge of the game. We're getting guys this year who wouldn't have seen a dozen A grade games -- and now they're umpiring at Senior level.
I don't think our new umpires have enough basic knowledge of the game to umpire effectivley.
I'm wondering, what other sports (basketball, league, gridiron, soccer, tennis, volleyball, hockey) have such a low supply of official umpires and rely upon clubs to do the umpiring. How many members does our umpire association have? 6? 8? Certainly not enough to cover all games. How do we fix that? What are we doing to increase numbers?
Other sports seem to have sufficient umpires to cover their needs. Why do we have so few? How many official umpires DO we have? How can we fix that? How can we get more?
But, players seem happier when the official blues aren't there as players/coaches feel they don't get proper respect from them when they do officiate the games. It's a case of the umpires feeling that they are the only ones with the knowledge. That has been my experience -- at all levels, including nationals.
Numerous cases over many years.
I didn't make any mention about balks or interpretations.
We seem to have a shortage of umpires. Why is this? What can we do to increase numbers so that clubbies aren't stuck with it.
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Post by QBUA on Jan 11, 2010 18:45:35 GMT 10
You have really missed the point of my post: I agree with your view of Level 1 for coaching -- and especially for umpiring. I think we should give all umpires a basic test of elements of the game -- or at least have candidates show proof of knowledge of the game. We're getting guys this year who wouldn't have seen a dozen A grade games -- and now they're umpiring at Senior level.I don't think our new umpires have enough basic knowledge of the game to umpire effectivley. I'm wondering, what other sports (basketball, league, gridiron, soccer, tennis, volleyball, hockey) have such a low supply of official umpires and rely upon clubs to do the umpiring. How many members does our umpire association have? 6? 8? Certainly not enough to cover all games. How do we fix that? What are we doing to increase numbers?Other sports seem to have sufficient umpires to cover their needs. Why do we have so few? How many official umpires DO we have? How can we fix that? How can we get more? But, players seem happier when the official blues aren't there as players/coaches feel they don't get proper respect from them when they do officiate the games. It's a case of the umpires feeling that they are the only ones with the knowledge. That has been my experience -- at all levels, including nationals. Numerous cases over many years. I didn't make any mention about balks or interpretations. We seem to have a shortage of umpires. Why is this? What can we do to increase numbers so that clubbies aren't stuck with it. Snoball, your posting tells me alot, if you voice your opinion at the clubs, as you have posted early, and people perceive it as an attack on umpires, then they are only going to the basic games to have their kids play. They are not going to look at expanding their experience and knowledge, just do enough to do their kids games. 99% of the umpires (QBUA) come from the baseball community, it's not just like putting an advertisement in the paper, the pay is not that great. I told someone that level 3 and 4 umpires do not just fall out of trees, everyone, no matter what the do, need experience. You make comments about us, like it is an everyday thing, like there are huge and many mistakes made every game. Quote "Numerous cases over many years" Unquote, is not reallty a good indicator, .0000000000000000001% is not a bad average for mistakes, and maybe not a mistake, you may just not have liked the call. As for your comments for Players and Managers not wanting the QBUA umpires at their games, just tell me all the clubs names, with the names of the people who wish for this, this is something we really can help you with. We need the names so we can tell the committees why we are not going to their fields, and who to talk to after that. As usual happy to help This thread is for the NATIONAL "A" CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not for normal club ball postings.
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Post by pope on Jan 11, 2010 18:57:23 GMT 10
We seem to have a shortage of umpires. Why is this? What can we do to increase numbers so that clubbies aren't stuck with it. I think you will find we have quite a few official umpires out there. It is just that many choose not to umpire on a regular basis. Between other commitments and harassment from players who know everything, many choose to spend time elsewhere. I know of a number of level 1 and 2 umpires that wont umpire senior games anymore due to the arrogance of certain players/coaches As for other sports, they also use our equivalent of clubbies week in week out. Most sports have the same problem, more people want to play the game than want to officiate the game. And those that officiate are just walking away rather than listening to the abuse. Here are a couple of ways to improve umpire numbers (feel free to add more)- 1) you get what you pay for. Start paying umpires a reasonable wage 2) more training sessions for umpires of all levels from level 0(time/availability is the killer here) and 3) Players/coaches need to play/coach and leave the umpiring up-to the umpires. It's tough enough without players/coaches carrying on like clowns I have found that when I think the umpire has it wrong, my opposition thinks the umpire has it right.
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Post by 44 on Jan 11, 2010 19:00:55 GMT 10
Yeah, good discussion about balks and local umps etc. but maybe one for another thread. It was intended for the 14 Nats originally. BTW just got a txt. QLD 14's won their first game 8-3 over VIC White. Tougher game tomorrow V VIC Blue. Why doesn't QLD send 2 teams VIC send a development team and experienced team to the Nats in all age groups it seems. Maybe QLD need to look at that for Nats and future state Region titles.
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Post by snoball on Jan 11, 2010 19:12:32 GMT 10
Pope -- I agree with all of your points. It's a tough job. Tougher for those just starting out.
I think more pay is a good idea. Some umps don't get enough for the abuse they have to take.
In addition -- come down hard on players/coaches who question judgement calls and abuse an umpire while on the field. This happens far too much. The obvious hot shots aren't getting pulled up on this. Top player/coach or not, throw him out if he gets in your face. Throw the entire team out if it comes to that.
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Post by snoball on Jan 11, 2010 19:14:34 GMT 10
ramsfan44 -- Qld did send two teams a few years ago -- one provincial and the other city.
I agree, send two teams and give more players the opportunity to succeed.
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Post by pope on Jan 11, 2010 19:35:10 GMT 10
ramsfan44 -- Qld did send two teams a few years ago -- one provincial and the other city. I agree, send two teams and give more players the opportunity to succeed. Sending 2 teams across the three age groups can only be seen to be a positive for QLD baseball development.
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Post by oldmate on Jan 11, 2010 19:59:38 GMT 10
QBUA, I havent attacked any umpire. I said it should be mandatory for a coach to sit an umpire course before they can sit a level 1. I also said balks are up to the coaches to teach the pitchers what they can and cant do. I have an opinion on a lot of things.
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Post by QBUA on Jan 11, 2010 20:15:31 GMT 10
QBUA, I havent attacked any umpire. I said it should be mandatory for a coach to sit an umpire course before they can sit a level 1. I also said balks are up to the coaches to teach the pitchers what they can and cant do. I have an opinion on a lot of things. My apologies Oldmate, sorry for the inclusion. I will edit my early posting to correct it.
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Post by rallymonkey44 on Jan 11, 2010 20:59:44 GMT 10
As for your comments for Players and Managers not wanting the QBUA umpires at their games, just tell me all the clubs names, with the names of the people who wish for this, this is something we really can help you with. We need the names so we can tell the committees why we are not going to their fields, and who to talk to after that.[/i]
In response to QBUA your aggressive response above only serves as an example of what snoball is onto. Umpires, coaches and players have a duty to be able to communicate with each other in manner which is both respectful yet acknowledges the parties involved may or may not have equal or varying levels of understanding or technical knowledge of the game and its rules.
Chest beating and huffing and puffing to justify your position does nothing for your cause. To further look to single out or victimise clubs or individuals because they happen to dislike the manner and results of their past interaction with individual umpires is totally unprofessional.
Conversely, coaches and players need to show a greater level of restraint and respect for umpires as a whole whether they be club appointed or "blues".
It would be nice for umpires at all levels to have a better procedure in place that makes them communicate with coaches and players prior to the start of games on what they will and won't tolerate and how they will handle any possible disputed calls by either side as well as levels of language, bi-play and interaction between teams and players.
All too often umpires and coaches fail not only to set but also enforce guidelines and boundaries on what is accepatble play and behaviour of players and teams. How many times do you see sides blowing up and individual players shooting their mouths off at umpires, coaches and opponents in front of spectators and children. It's a bad blight on our game at present, but neither coaches nor umpires are stepping up to curb this type of grossly negative behaviour.
Sure players get frustrated etc but keep it in the dugout out and keep the language, tantrums and equipment abuse under control and in a more sportsmanlike or mature level. Not a full blown stage show for the crowds watching the game.
Having a guy in a blue shirt with a higher than thou attitude who can't communicate with his 2nd umpire or the coaches of either side isn't helping.
It's also okay for either umpire to call time and consult between umpires. Even better they may even be able to work out between themselves and admit they might have got something wrong. Whatever the result, find a way that clearly communicates the decision, but also one that takes into account that the coach may infact know more about the game / application of rules than you the umpire does.
It's a starting point for improvement and a much better approach than QBUA's proposed witch hunt of clubs and players.
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