Commissioner's Team in U14 and U16 State Titles?

[44]

With Sunshine Coast no longer having State Titles teams in U14 and U16 age groups, why not make up a "Commissioner's team" in both U14 and U16 to make even 8 Teams next season?
NQ - BN - METRO - BW - BS - GC - FNC - Commish
IE: Each REGION nominates 4-5 kids unlucky to miss out on Region selection but still suitable players at the State Titles, BQ then have the final selection say on the "Commish Team" Roster.

Please discuss Pros and Cons.

( Does not work for Little League due to International LL Rules )
What do you think Snoochies?

[smithy]

It is a pity the 14's and 16's State titles are within days of one another, because they could of had the winning region of the under 14's making up the eighth spot in the 16's. This would stop the bye and give these 14's some experience. As most of these regional teams would be second year players, they will be moving up a grade the next year (great experience for them).
The under 14's spot could be taken up by a Little league Queensland selected team. As the little league does not have a State Representative team, a team could be selected by baseball Qld of the best 14 performing players in the Little league titles to represent the last spot in the U/14's state finals. Great experience for these boys too, which I would believe to be a tough team for the regional teams to beat.

[wilderness]

Hey RF44,
A Commishioner's team is a good idea, there is still a lot of untapped skills sitting on the edges of the talent pool, and any opportunity to identify it, is worthwhile. It's a lot like the Territories at Nationals, they open up their selection to other states to fill their ranks and at the U-14 level, they had some kids in their line up, that out-shone their home states in batting and fielding. This was also the case last year. Also, some states are looking for a specific profile for their team: so many pitchers, so many catchers ... and a great player might still be highly ranked but misses out on making their home state team because their skills didn't line up with the profile the selectors had for that team. Anything that will give these kids a chance is a good idea!!

Smithy, I'm not in favour of putting out-of-age kids into the state titles, it gives the lower age kids the opportunity to develop their skills but it comes at the expense of the upper age kids going the other way. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the concept of lower age kids playing up in order to hone their skills, but I think that a state championship is not the venue to do it.

If the concept of the commishioner's team is to go ahead, it would need support to come from BQ, not just in giving it the green light but also to take it seriously when assessing players within this team, for state selection. If there is a general perception that the commishioner's team is just a fill-in, then it's doomed, regardless of how they go in the overall ladder.

[wildpitch23]

What a terrific idea! This would give the borderline selection kids the motivation to keep trying and continue their development at a higher level than club ball. Also, in some regions, kids miss out that would easily make other regional teams because of the discrepancy in strengths and this would enable them to compete.

I disagree with Smithy's idea as this is just continuing to develop the same small group of kids over and again. They would have to be on different pitch restrictions etc. Let them develop at their own level. You say that most of the kids in a winning team would be second years. Even if that is true, remember that State titles are held before our season starts so you would then potentially have twelve year olds playing fifteen year olds. If there was a first year U14 in the team, they could, potentially, be only 11 yrs old!

[buddy]

Brilliant idea. Sometimes a very tough decision on the last few selections in a Regional Team. Its a shame to see those kids miss out. I assume BQ would have to do their own selection trial or does each Region provide 2 players who go straight in? They may not be able to train as much as a normal regional team given the geographical spread but I bet they will be as keen as to prove themselves

[williemays_hays]

So, the state titles have just been shortened to 90 minute games because teams don't have enough pitching, and now we want to play another "meaningless" game, against pitchers who are by definition not up to regional competition standard. What do you honestly think the outcome of these games would be? Is it your goal to embarress these players that couldnt make their regional team further? Or is it to offer easy batting practise for our batters? Think of what their stats would be like then and the ensuring debate of who should make the Rams team based upon those stats.

[JRA Qld2]

Williemays, players that miss out on selection in a strong region would easily make selection in another weaker region.
The concept works quite well in schoolboys with the Presidents team and has been used in the past at Timberjacks with the Sunshine Coast team. It is even used to a degree at nationals, I believe Territories take on many players from other states that have just missed out on their state side.
And as far as I remember, that 'second rate' Territories team managed to knock us off and keep up with other states.

I don't think it would be 'humiliating' for these players, if kid's don't want to play for the team, they can politely decline, but I bet many would just be wanting to play in a state tournament, no matter what their final placing is.

[bronco]

JRA don't compare the "Territories" team at the nationals to this discussion. Territories has only a "handful" of players from other states to make up the final numbers and to call them 2nd rate is way out of line and disrespectful. A high percenatge of that team are very talented and had been playing together for many years and it finally clicked for them this time.

I have coached at both state level and region level and the difference I found is that in State teams there are always at least 3 or 4 players who were actually good enough state level players but just miss out. In region level I find the last 3 or 4 players are not good enough but get selected to make up the numbers.

Now why pick a team made up of players who really are not good enough to play at the higher level other than to just give them a game? Who is going to pitch & catch in this team?
Honestly I can't see the point. The state championships is not the place just to give kids a game.

[baddys]

With so many issues that are discussed on this topic and elsewhere on the forum it always seems to be a question of is the glass of water half full or half empty?

The negative cases always appear to take the half empty argument but we always should be seeing the glass half full.

We should not believe that at regional level the last 3 or 4 players are not good enough but get selected to make up the numbers. This is a glass half empty vision.

This may be the case in weaker regions but what about where the regions have greater depth? What happens to those players who are fringe players in the strong regions who miss out?

As has already been stated the game must provide borderline selection kids the motivation to keep trying and continue their development at a higher level. More than likely this should also help in the retention of players now lost to the sport.

Sure it always is difficult on the last few selections in very strong regional team but those who miss out deserve the opportunity to develop at a higher level. We are all stakeholders in this so why don’t we all come up with more constructive glass half full ideas and present them via you club and region to BQ. For support to come from BQ it needs to be driven from clubs and regions.

Not sure if each region provides only 2 players who go straight in would be the way to go. In reality the stronger regions probably should have greater numbers. When thrown this opportunity (with the right coaching) this team would be not be the easy beats as the glass half empty soothsayers would have us believe. Sure they won’t win the tournament but how much will they benefit and develop from the experience.

I seem to recall at last year’s Timberjacks in Lismore there was a composite under 14 team from all regions called “THE BADDYS”. In this team were kids from regions who did not send a team to Timberjacks to other players who missed out on selection in their regional team. (Gold Coast sent 3 teams and Metro sent 2 teams)

“THE BADDYS” had players from Narangba, Southern Stars, Carina, Runaway Bay, Pine Hills, Toowoomba, Redlands and West’s. They were an eclectic group comprising of about half who were Little League players last season playing under 14 rules for the first time mixed in with players who had already had a year of under 14 including 2 Cal Ripken selections.

This was all about giving opportunities to play and develop further and many of first years under 14 players are now individually playing very competitively in Div 1. Their brief Timberjacks experience helped to provide that opportunity and belief.

“THE BADDYS” did train despite the geographical spread because they were very keen to prove themselves. They even won a few games.

This was similar concept to a having a commissioners team which does have merit. There is still a lot of talent and under developed skills flying under the radar and every opportunity these players are given can only be a good thing.

Certainly there must be a balance of out of age kids / upper age into the state titles. However when the lower age kids with potential have the opportunity to develop their skills in a higher level during their first year the real benefits will be seen in the following season.

As said on an earlier post anything that will give these kids with potential an additional chance is worth trying. Also keeping added pressure on the “Elite” players can only be a good thing as well.

[wilderness]

There are two ways of looking at this, a) how competitive will this team be? b) what benefits will it bring.

a) In terms of how competitive this team will be: being realistic, it's unlikely that the team would win the competition, but you can say the same thing about some of the regional teams and noone would say, don't let them come. I think that there is every chance that the Commish's team would not be on the bottom of the table either and I think that they at least deserve a chance. Besides, good coaching is the key and with some quality coaching time you can raise the level of ANYONE and so its a simple question of putting in the time and effort.

b) What benefits it would bring, you need to look at this from the perspective of the team as well as the other teams. The benefits to the Commish's team are obvious and noone could doubt that. In terms of the benefits to the other teams, as long as the commish's team is not struggling down the bottom of the ladder, then the other regional teams would gain some benefit in playing them.

I appreciate that some people have concerns, but I think we owe it to the kids and baseball, to at least give it a try. Otherwise these kids will be like brusslesprouts, we've never tasted one and we're not even willing to try becasue we've already made up our minds that we don't like them.

[babe]

Wilderness, great cool sensible logical breakdown of the issues.
Willie mays, you should look at club batting stats.... there are better batters.

[williemays_hays]

Feb 10, 2010 12:05:25 GMT 10 babe said:

Wilderness, great cool sensible logical breakdown of the issues.
Willie mays, you should look at club batting stats.... there are better batters.

so by that logic the regional and state teams should be made up from division 2 players as their batting averages are generally higher than div 1? Seriously, people need to get over this fixation they have with batting average telling whether a player can hit or not.

[JRA Qld2]

So you're saying every division 1 player makes it into their regional team?
GBL U14's has 11 division 1 teams, plus 8 from Gold Coast alone this makes roughly 190 division 1 players, not including NQ. So roughly you have about 60-70 division 1 kids to choose from, not to mention the best of the div 2's.
I think they could be quite competitive, especially in 14's and 16's where there isn't an as big gap talent as the older ages.

[wilderness]

If in doubt, give it a go and see what happens!!! You have everything to gain and nothing to loose.

[bronco]

Gold Coast have 8 x "Division 1" U14 teams? WOW