Radical New GBL U14 and U16 Comp Ideas

[44]

Looking at the GBL Comp ladders for this season's U14 and U16 comp shows many uneven byes and teams that are playing in the wrong division.

It must also be a nightmare for BQ/GBL to schedule the fixtures with teams moving divisions after a few weeks and very uneven numbers in each comp.

Something is drastically wrong with 30-0 scores and kids not strong enough for U14.1 having to play up and get smashed in U16.1 just to make up numbers on gameday.

30-0 scores are not good for either keeping more kids in the sport longer or development of the top level talent leading upto U20 and Seniors.

I think we should take a leaf out of the Rugby League Juniors book in SE QLD.. More divisions and limit each to 8 teams:

First 3 rounds are grading rounds. Points carry over with the team.

14 rounds total plus the 3 grading rounds. Each team plays each other equally home and away once.

Incorporate a few midweek Night games to squeeze in the extra grading games.

Same 4 team GBL 3 week Finals system as now.

8 Teams only per division.
U16.1
U16.2
U16.3

U14.1
U14.2
U14.3

Provision for U14.1 players to make up numbers in U16.3 if needed or cross club teams.

U14.3 might end up not being 8 teams but LL Major players can make up numbers if need be.

Each Senior Majors Club needs at least 1 team in any U16 and U14 division .

What is your Idea and feedback ??

[ramsrus]

ramsfan44, I agree that getting beaten 30 to 0 is not a good thing. I have seen players with potential to play state leave clubs because they are not playing in div 1. What would happen if the grading was only done after the first 3 rounds? Also, a team may play the top 3 sides in the first 3 rounds and get beaten soundly where another team that my not be stronger than them, gets through because they played weaker teams.

[44]

Thanks for your feedback ramsrus, it would be great if others could have an opinion on this important subject also.

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Although 3 Grading rounds not ideal, currently GBL has none.

I think Clubs should nominate their U14 and U16 teams in anyone of the 3 x 8 Team Divisions. GBL and BQ then set fixtures as evenly as possible, then re-assess and Grade the last 14 Rounds. A team could still swap divisions, but less likely after better pre-season grading.

This season for Rugby League there will be 7 Grading Rounds, then 14 Rounds of fixtures , 7 equal home and away games for 8 teams across 4-5 Divisions.

Baseball does not have that luxury of fitting 21 Junior Rounds into the season. But with More Lights.. Why Not?

There are certain Div1 Players playing Div2 now and Vice-Versa. This will always happen with Clubs that can only field 1 team in a age group.

I know a player last season played U14.2 but was in the State team.

It is my first time involved at the U14 age group in baseball and I feel there are way too many forfeits, lop sided scores and Byes.

In short, I think the U14 and U16 comp needs a serious re-vamp.

I have read and heard that only Clubs that have Senior Majors teams next season will have a follow on U20, U16.1 and U14.1 team only ??
That is Rubbish !!

What about a Club ( name withheld) that has a very good U14 team, but not allowed to play Div1 because their Seniors do not qualify for Majors ??

Treat each age group and division on it's own merit. If a Club wants to nominate 2 x Div1's or 2 by div2's.. So what.

If a Majors Club can only nominate a Div3 age team.. So what.

I agree entirely Senior Majors Clubs need to make certain criteria, but that should not force their U14 and U16 team into Div1.

[smithy]

I think there is a definite need for a division 3 in u/14's as clubs are still attracting new players to the game at this age. With so many teams in these age groups, there is a definite need for grading matches.
As mentioned previous about Rugby League, Soccer also has a grading system. They have 4 grading games and a 14 week season. Points from grading games do not carry over into fixtures. This is good as it allows clubs to adjust playing rosters to get the correct players into the right team if you have more than one team. At the end of the grading games you submit you playing roster to the controlling body. From experience, the team normally ends up in the right division and the players end up in the right division, as it is usually only a couple of players that are being graded between your teams.

[44]

Aug 27, 2009 22:59:17 GMT 10 smithy said:

I think there is a definite need for a division 3 in u/14's as clubs are still attracting new players to the game at this age. With so many teams in these age groups, there is a definite need for grading matches.
As mentioned previous about Rugby League, Soccer also has a grading system. They have 4 grading games and a 14 week season. Points from grading games do not carry over into fixtures. This is good as it allows clubs to adjust playing rosters to get the correct players into the right team if you have more than one team. At the end of the grading games you submit you playing roster to the controlling body. From experience, the team normally ends up in the right division and the players end up in the right division, as it is usually only a couple of players that are being graded between your teams.

Spot on Smithy....

Once team nominations are in, I hope a possible 3 division league is considered in 14's and 16's.

[JRA Qld2]

What about 20's?

[ces]

As a parent of a lad just beginning in the u14's in Brisbane and seeing the draws just released, I can see that only 2 divisions have been retained. I'm sure there is a rationale, like to hear it.

[smithy]

I will be coaching an under 14 team this year. My team will consist of one second year 14, five players coming up from the under 12 little league minors into the 14's and five kids that are completely new to the game. Ideally, a division 3 would have suited us real well, but we will have to try our best in division 2.
As you can see, this age group is still attracting players to the game. Some of these new players have raw talent and will adjust quickly, while others will be out of their depth. The retention of these players in this game of ours would be a step easier if the league had a division 3.
Example: teams with majority of first year 14's may be more comfortable in division 3 and the following year when these players become second years, they could advance to division 2 or 1, depending on the team.

[wildpitch23]

What about a club that only has numbers for one team and has a couple of Div 1 strength, a couple of Div 2 strength and the rest new players. Will those Div 1 players be satisfied playing in a third grade of beginners? Will any of them improve in a weaker comp?
I agree that there has been great disparity between teams in all junior comps previously but often it has been because clubs have misgraded their teams to start with. Last year, a club that fielded two U14 Div 1 teams was very critical on this forum of our club because it fielded one Div 1 and 2 Div 2 teams. In our opinion, our weaker players were afforded more of a chance to get experience in key positions such as pitching, catching etc, by playing them in the lower grades. They would not get a look in in a Div 1 team. They did and they are better ball players this year because of it...and they didn't get beaten 30 - 0.
It's pretty obvious to a coach once training starts if the team is not up to Div 1 standard and they should make the call at the beginning of the season. There were, however, a couple of teams in the 14s and 16s Div2 comps that were badly beaten and I think that this does suggest that a third grade is needed. It would be interesting to know how many of the players in those particular teams have returned to the sport this season. Perhaps someone from those teams could tell us...they know who they are.

[wildpitch23]

Sorry, I am wrong there. It was our 16s that we were criticised about but the same comment applies!

[44]

Not sure if 16's have the numbers for 3 Divvys this season, but 14's have 24 teams over 2 Divvys.

I'd say that is perfect for 3 Divvys this season, There are 17 Rounds and 24 x U14 teams. Play 3 as grading with points carried over then 3 Grades with 8 teams each playing 14 rounds, exact 7+7 home and away balance.

Some teams unfortunately have their Byes first 3 Rounds but I'm sure those teams could still be graded fairly.

[wilderness]

One thing that will turn kids away from any sport, is being thrashed week in and week out. If there are weaker teams in a competition that are not at the same level as everyone else, then they need to be dropped down and if this means making a third division then just do it. I've heard lots of talk in the past about teams playing in a competition where there are only 4 other teams and how this means that they will have lots of repeat games against the same bunch of kids. I think this is better than losing a whole bunch of kids from one club because they are sick of losing each week.

I've always found that good coaching is the key to success, if the coach is motivated then the kids will eventually improve.

[oldmate]

Then why do the clubs nominate these teams in that comp? You know if they are good enough or not before the season starts and should nominate in the correct grade. Now they whinge and b#tch about getting spanked every week so new draws have to be made for BOTH divisions, the points carry over into the new draws, so some teams have played against them and some have not, so that is not fair to the teams who have not played them. I say if you nominate in a grade, bad luck, you stay there. You had a choice.

[wilderness]

Oldmate, I undestand your frustration because it can cause disruption to teams that were not responsible for any of the mess and I guess that it's kind of like making other people pay for your mistakes. But what really worries me is that in the end it will be the kids that will end up paying the price for some poor choices made by adults.