Innings V Time Games ??

[BQ Moderator]

Snoball has raised an interesting topic ::
Local GBL Rules : Innings V Time games.

I have copied to a new thread to maintain integrity on the DH question thread.

"I can't think of any amateur league in the world that doesn't use the DH and can't see any reason not to use it.
I'd much rather we looked at getting away from timed games -- baseball has never been intended to be a game governed by a clock -- allow enough time for each game to finish its due number of innings. 7 inning game for all divisions and grades, U16 and upwards.

I know, I know....this is very radical thinking."

[JRA Qld2]

I just wrote a couple of paragraphs on the possibilities of having innings games and realised it would be an organisational nightmare to schedule though, limited facilities. So many what if's and maybe's.

You'd have problems with juniors on pitch limits as well..

What are everyone else's thoughts

[44]

Innings based games are well worth aiming for as snoball said and I agree 100%.

With Padres getting Lights creates another field that can extend games on a Sunday or Saturday if needed. If QMBL A/B and PBL A/B are the only 2 games at fields on a sunday, why not aim for 7 Innings B. 9 Innings A or if a double header A game. 7 Innings b, 7+7 A.

I'm not sure Innings would work in SQBL with so many teams and uneven draws to juggle or Juniors as it would be a logistical nightmare for BQ scheduling.

In first year of Metro LL and a LL Majors game of 6 Innings went almost 3 hours !! That is ridiculous.
Same year in the Finals with good Coaching and Umpire Time management rules a LL Final of full 6 Innings in METRO was over in less than 90 minutes. Coaches need to get kids to hustle on and off and Umps need strict time management, 6 warmup pitches is fine, not 8 between innings for LL. 10th player on the bench is always suited up ready to catch warmup.

Normal fixture gameday for Juniors I think we need to stick with time based for now due to limited field resources.

Grand Finals for LL should be 6 Inning LL International rules for sure. Grand Finals for 14's and 16's 7 Innings and U20's possibly 9 Innings as most of them are already playing Major A or B.

Make all SQBL Grand Finals Innings based also.

Time based games will ALWAYS be manipulated by Coaches. I know because I have done it myself.
Baseball should be Innings based as much as possible within GBL logistics.

JRA said:
"You'd have problems with juniors on pitch limits as well.."

Maybe some Coaches in LL and U14's should be giving more kids a chance to Pitch rather than just the same "guns" each week like some teams do.


Pitch Limits not a problem JRA, just give another kid a chance when the starting Pitchers are out of count.

[snoball]

Good post, 44.
I think, for next season, 7 inning games for U16, Div 1 and above.
Just looking at the 16 and 20 draw from this year, over a random 5 week period, Nov 14 through Dec 12, only once did a club with only one field (Pine Hills) have an U16 (Div 1 or 2) game followed by an U20 game. All other clubs having back to back 16 and 20 games had two fields which they could use in case of problems getting in the 7 innings.
It's also interesting to see how often teams with 16's were not followed at the same venue by their 20's. This is something else I'd like to see adjusted. Wouldn't it be nice if your 12's through 20's were on at the same venue for the day. In fact, how about one club vs another for the whole weekend, starting with A's on Friday, continuing with Juniors on Saturday and finishing with seniors on Sunday.
Very tricky, I know. But it CAN be done. I think sometimes we are premature in throwing things into the "too hard" basket.

[44]

Apr 2, 2010 15:57:13 GMT 10 snoball said:

Good post, 44.
I think, for next season, 7 inning games for U16, Div 1 and above.
Just looking at the 16 and 20 draw from this year, over a random 5 week period, Nov 14 through Dec 12, only once did a club with only one field (Pine Hills) have an U16 (Div 1 or 2) game followed by an U20 game. All other clubs having back to back 16 and 20 games had two fields which they could use in case of problems getting in the 7 innings.
It's also interesting to see how often teams with 16's were not followed at the same venue by their 20's. This is something else I'd like to see adjusted. Wouldn't it be nice if your 12's through 20's were on at the same venue for the day. In fact, how about one club vs another for the whole weekend, starting with A's on Friday, continuing with Juniors on Saturday and finishing with seniors on Sunday.
Very tricky, I know. But it CAN be done. I think sometimes we are premature in throwing things into the "too hard" basket.

Great lateral thinking snoball, I like the idea of a Club v Club weekends.

I've been involved at both ends so far, helping to market a club and scheduling region games via MyComp.

In the marketing sense, Club v Club weekends make perfect sense and can also be cross promoted with the new ABL team for their marketing purpose also.

In the scheduling sense, ( and I have been involved with this a fair bit for 3+ seasons now) It would be a logistical problem with Regions running their own LL comps V GBL schedules and uneven team numbers/clubs across all age groups.


BQ and the various regions do a great job scheduling games already each season, your concept puts it on a whole new level of thinking, yes VERY hard but not impossible................

[JRA Qld2]

Well my original thought was to start SQBL A's (Major C) at 8:30 instead of 9am and get them to play 7 innings, B's to play 7 and A's to play 9. If you start 15 minutes after the finish of the previous game, A-Grade should start around 2pm usually anyway.

I think 7 innings would work for SQBL A, the game would be as fast (if not faster in some cases) flowing as a B-Grade game, and it has its own timeslot independent of any other grade.

I like your thinking snoball, but I think the problem with having an innings game in U16's is that many clubs rely on U16's to back up in 20's and you can only avert this situation by backing up after the match. Maybe in finals, but as for regular season games.

I think it's possible in 20's, because it is the end of the day, if games drag on too long, they can get called for light. 7 innings though, not 9, I can name at least one U20's team this season that didn't have any A or B graders. Remember the best pitchers don't pitch 20's, they are usually saved for senior games.

As for the club vs club idea, it's not as easy as it sounds. BQ try to schedule games back to back where possible, but take Carina vs Padres for example, you would have both Redcliffe's 14 div 2's not playing, U16 div 1 not playing and U20 Pool A not playing. Who do they play?
You've got different numbers in each competition as well, there are 13 U14 div 2 teams, but only 7 U16 div 1 teams (including Surfers). So in a season the 16's will play an opposition 3 times, but the 14's in some cases only once.

As 44 mentioned with the regional comps vs GBL comps, the different age groups themselves having uneven numbers and clubs would make it impossible.

44 said:
Maybe some Coaches in LL and U14's should be giving more kids a chance to Pitch rather than just the same "guns" each week like some teams do.

I agree that more coaches should do this, but the fact of the matter is that most coaches will develop 2-3 pitchers for the season and an innings game forces more changes, less quality in the later innings and in turn a much longer game that loses interest. U14's and LL are both competitive leagues and, although it may seem selfish, coaches of the best teams want to win rather than risk losing to give part time pitchers a chance.


If BQ are going to do something like this, I think phasing it in would be the best idea
Start with B's. If there is success next season with B's, then perhaps the opportunity to bring it in for SQBL A and U20's would arise.
If there is success with those grades as well, then we can start thinking about junior games and lower seniors.

I hate to seem like a wet rag, but I'm just trying to see it from BQ's point of view and why they wouldn't have introduced it already.

[snoball]

Sounds good.
I like the idea of phasing it in over a few seasons. Go with seniors to start with and see how it goes. I know all players will appreciate knowing that they will get 21 (or 27) outs per game.

[44]

HELLO . DEVILS' ADVOCATE HERE ::

Phasing in slowly sounds the way to go.
Let's assume 7 Innings In Major Bs and C's ( yes... SQBL A)

SQBL A at 8:30am...

What time should the B players and A players plan on arriving for warmups?

I'm sure the B's will appreciate the 7 Innings based games but their start time on the day could vary substantially and unknown variable every Sunday.
Not trying to be Mr. Negative, love the Innings based Idea but all angles and possible issues need to be discussed.

What about SQBL C and B are 2 HR Time based. SQBL A is 7 or 9 Innings starting at 2PM.

QMBL A/B and PBL A/B are both 9 Innings Sundays ? Or B is 7 Innings with the 9 Inning clause if drawn after 7. Start B earlier than 11am.

[snoball]

A lot of other amateur leagues allow about 2.45 to 3 hrs between senior games. That seems to be plenty of time.
Warm ups of Senior teams here is over rated. They seem to take 45 mins to 1 hr to do 30 minutes or less of warm ups. Jog, stretch, throwing, some crazy long pepper game that does nothing for their swing, maybe a coach hitting fly balls or grounders......kind of a waste of time and energy. No pitcher really has his pre-game prep down to the minute....but, if you start A's 2 1/2 hours after B's have begun, you should be safe.

[JRA Qld2]

Going on what snoball said:
If you started at 8:30am you'd allow for 2.5 hours with a 15 min start. So if first fixture is 8:30, B-Grade fixture is 11:15 and A-Grade 2pm. Even if these games run over time (rarely you'd see more than a 2.5 hour 7 inning game), starting B-Grade at 11:30 or A-Grade at 2:30 wouldn't be to of too much negative effect.

I think Major A and Pacific A are really the only ones that warrant 9 innings, in a lot of clubs there is quite a skill gap between A and B.

SQBL B and C, two hours, with 7 innings finals.