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Post by nuke on Feb 15, 2010 23:14:46 GMT 10
Post this one for the umpires out there. I got this question from a early 90's baseball card and its a legitimate question. Ok pretty simply - If a batter steps into the box and then sits on the ground befor facing his/her first pitch - what do you do ? (If you let him/her proceed to do this as he/she consider this thier stance - what happens to the strike zone?) I look forward to the replies  |
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Post by 44 on Feb 16, 2010 15:09:49 GMT 10
Post this one for the umpires out there. I got this question from a early 90's baseball card and its a legitimate question. Ok pretty simply - If a batter steps into the box and then sits on the ground befor facing his/her first pitch - what do you do ? (If you let him/her proceed to do this as he/she consider this thier stance - what happens to the strike zone?) I look forward to the replies Interesting hypothetical nuke. One would assume the player in question was not sitting down when taking warmup pepper nor disabled. I'd call strikes based on natural batting stance of course. Can't remember the rule number but I believe UIC has the power to eject a player for making a mockery of the game also. |
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Post by nuke on Feb 16, 2010 16:35:19 GMT 10
Ramsfan (RF) - thanks for the reply - very much appreciated. I would like to respond with some things more for you and others to munch regarding this (not calling you wrong by the way RF - just some more things that I have considered when trying to resolve this one).
What if the batter considered this their preffered stance ? You cant penalise someone for what they consider their preference (eg similar to someone who crouches really low at the knees in the box) ? Then it serves the question of the strike zone - what is a 'natural strike zone' as you said and why would be applied differantly to someone with a differant stance?
I think the ruling would have to be formultted based on what is considered a 'legal' stance in the box if there is such a precise ruling, not so much about the judgement of what is a natural batting stance as such. Can anyone shed some light regarding this ?
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homer
Little Leaguer
Posts: 19
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Post by homer on Feb 16, 2010 16:56:06 GMT 10
Have a look at the definition of the Strike Zone. There is even a picture for those who need them.
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Post by QBUA on Feb 16, 2010 19:16:47 GMT 10
Interesting scenario, thanks for this one.
I'll talk to you all with the one posting OK.
OK, we could go with an ejection for bringing the game into disrepute, can be difficult later I think with the report.
I'd ask/tell the person to stand as per usual, if not complying, then maybe eject on the grounds of not following an umpires directive, using the duty of care issue. Good idea to have a talk to the manager first, let them take the player off.
Rule 2.73 (the strike zone), Batters Stance: STANCE WHEN THE BATTER IS PREPARED TO SWING AT A PITCHED BALL.
1. You could just go with the batter standing in the box, and judging your strike zone off that.
2. Yes, sometimes you can see how they swing at a ball before their time at bat, and get a good judgment off that.
3. If able to, we, QBUA and ABF umpires usually observe batters in the circle, just before their time at bat, they are more intense there.
The teaching for understanding this part of the strike zone:
Stance when the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.
The more technical time for this observation is when the batter is transferring their weight, during the swing at the pitch and the bat has moved, this is when the batter is preparing to swing at the pitch.
Without being to technical on this observation, maybe use the transfer of weight, just before the swing.
a. It can bring the zone down slightly on most batters with batters standing straight up.
b. If they are crouching at the start, and they have to come up to swing at the pitch, then their zone has risen slightly or alot.
c. The other one is when the batter moves his body down, usually on a curve ball or gravity ball, and tries to make the top of the zone lower.
Why do they do this?
Remember where the top of the zone is and call off what was there when preparing to swing, not at the end of their move.
With this observation and timing on the batter, not many batters can really hide their zone to try and make it harder or get a walk.
In using this technic, they don't usually go to such extremes in the future.
Hope this helped.
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Post by kylebyrne on Feb 17, 2010 10:28:08 GMT 10
Guys its really simple... dont worry about the strike zone wether this is his batting stance etc... Duty of care and bringing the game into disrepute are the tools for the umpire to use here. If the batter refuses to stand eject him and bring a new guy into the box.
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Post by bobbybillabong on Feb 17, 2010 11:46:31 GMT 10
Hmmm, I can think of three ways to approach this
1 - play it as it is: Picture the strike zone as it would be if the batter were standing in the box, direct the pitcher to pitch (the 12 second rule still applies) and after three strikes (they're unlikely to be balls) call the batter out.
2 - talk to the batter & manager: Ask the batter if they are seriously going to just sit in the box. If they are, call time and ask the manager if this is how they want the game to proceed. If they say 'no', ask them to sort out their batter. If they say 'yes', let them know you're about to eject both them and the batter - give them 30 seconds or so to think about it and eject both.
3 - direct the batter to take a standing stance in the box, chest facing the plate, head and eyes looking at the pitcher, with the warning that you will eject them if they don't.
Me, I'd favour option 2. It puts the responsibility on the manager, and makes the consequences more serious - 2 ejections - for non-compliance.
While it's tempting to dismiss the example as one of those things that would never happen, a quick surf of YouTube dispels that idea.
But - in the spirit of 'what if' - what if the player were squatting in the box, and had done so in the on-deck circle, and also in pepper before the game? The strike zone (bottom of the breast, matching the knees) disappears...
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Post by QBUA on Feb 17, 2010 15:33:33 GMT 10
Bobby, good posting.
Your senario (2) is a good game management tool with alot of situations that happen in games, then the manager does not have to come out and ask what just happened.
Your last one, "what if", call a couple of strikes, then see what happens. ;D
I would think that a squat was nearly the same as sitting.
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