bigw
Tee Baller
Posts: 3
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Post by bigw on Feb 1, 2010 8:18:17 GMT 10
Umpiring an u20 game on Saturday, the following could have occurred so I ask for comment on the following scenario. For whatever reason the ball is thrown past the first baseman (pickoff or overthrow) and the runner continues on to second or third. The first baseman runs to the fence and picks up the WRONG ball (there was one lying against the fence but it hadn't been seen by the umpires before but is seen as the fielder picks it up). The runner is then thrown out with the wrong ball. What happens next??
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Post by bobbybillabong on Feb 1, 2010 10:04:18 GMT 10
This is off the top of my head, without looking at the rules.
First consideration would be whether the use of the 'wrong' ball materially affected the outcome. Let's say the two balls were a metre apart - it's unlikely that the decision would be affected. But if they were 10 metres apart, and the wrong ball were the closer of the two, and the throw just beat the runner, then the decision might be affected.
Other consideration is knowing which ball is which - again this depends on how close the balls are.
If I knew the wrong ball was being used, I would call time as soon as it was put into play, since the player is functionally introducing a foreign object to the field. Assuming the introduction is unintentional I would award runners the base they were going to.
But then there's the 'what if' of only noticing the second ball after the play is complete. It might be clear from the state of the ball which is the 'right' ball, and then I think it's umpire's judgement on whether the use of the 'wrong' ball materially affected the outcome. If it did I would take actions to nullify the use; if it didn't I'd let the play stand. If it's not clear which ball is which I would let the play stand.
The second ball on field situation happens reasonably often with foul balls to the outfield, but overthrows wouldn't go that far (I hope).
When I'm doing plate I (almost!) always do a left to right scan, before putting the ball into play at the beginning of a half inning, to make sure the playing area is clear of equipment, or stuff that might look like a ball. This hopefully picks up the warmup ball that hasn't made it to the dugout.
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Post by QBUA on Feb 1, 2010 20:44:25 GMT 10
Bobby, you have been a busy bee.
Firstly, you are doing the right thing by looking around before the next pitch, so many items can end up on the play surface between plays etc. Yes, I too have a good look around before the next play, change of innings, are all the warm up balls in the dugout or under control by a bench player. With the last foul ball possibly play any part in any play here on. Are the bats at least tidy from the last play, to avoid a dangerous situation with fielders stepping on them. Helmets, chairs, gloves, wieghts, people near the dugouts. I was told early in my career not to worry to much about them, but you have to make sure that you are happy with the situation.
In the case of your examples or cenarios, there is a saying we use, "what is fare for everyone?" Yes, seeing the ball picked up, I would call TIME immediately, and award one base from time of pitch. With the play continuing and a possible play on a runner and not noticing it until later, two calls I could make, let the play stand, as with the altered bat Rule, then remove the wrong ball from the game, or as per first one, TIME and award bases from the time of pitch. I"ll do some investigating and watch this space.
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bigw
Tee Baller
Posts: 3
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Post by bigw on Feb 2, 2010 8:59:53 GMT 10
Thanks Guys. I agree we should all be wary of balls and other equipment on the field and ensure this doesn't happen however I was interested in how to handle it should it ever eventuate. I beleive you learn the best lessons when something like this happens, it tends to stick in your mind. If it wasn't a pitch but a pick off would you award bases from the throw? And just to add another twist to the two ball saga, while umpiring a B Grade game on Sunday (plate) I picked up the foul balls dropped into the shute by the diligent spectators and dropped them into my ball bag. Another foul so I hand the catcher another ball who then throws it to the pitcher. He makes the pitch which is low and bounces off the plate. The catcher then notices that it is a soft ball used by T Ballers that has found its way into the game. I removed the ball and so in future I will check to see that any balls returned to me are 'real' baseballs.
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Post by QBUA on Feb 3, 2010 15:41:32 GMT 10
BigW, you first, you had me laughing my head off with the soft ball, it must have been a set up, the pitcher must have know it was not a regulation ball. Now your second part, you will find that it is always one base award from a pickoff move, does not relate to an outfielder or second play by an infielder's throw Rules. BOBBY, I checked out someone else's opinion, play it like obstruction or interference, foreign object on the playing area. Defensive team: If you make a ruling that would advantage them, such as limiting the number of bases the opposition could get, then they may deliberately pick up the wrong ball. The defensive team should know which is the right ball, same for both sides. If a play comes from the wrong ball in play, call TIME, give the base to the runner. (as per obstruction with no play on the runner). If an offensive team thinks they can get an advantage from this type of call, and throw a ball into the fray, you could use the interference cenario, and call the runner out. (as per the offensive team interferring with the play) (because this would be so uncommon, they would probably have to be reading these posting to know what to do.) Basically, penalize the team that picked up the wrong ball.
There would probably be some conversation between the umpire and the manager, and a couple of cents thrown in from the dugout, but hey, I bet they clean up around their dugout very fast.
Does that help.
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