So, when does a time game end?

[scorekeeper]

Mar 6, 2010 10:57:27 GMT 10 QBUA said:

Scorekeeper, your posting popped up while I was typing mine.

Is the word (CURFEW) being used in the right text with regard to the bylaws.

No, probably the wording should be "cut-off time" or something to that effect. I was attempting to make the distinction between the 2 1/2 hour time limit for Friday A grade and the other grades' time limits. They are not the same thing in practice, but this is not made "plain as day" in the by-laws, thus leading to confusion and disagreements.

In the past, games have gone all the way up to 11pm at least, has it changed this year. (Ipswich)

Late add on to my posting, what if a game can get 10 innings in inside 2 1/2 hours.

Thanks.

To further clarify, how about something along these lines...

...9 innings, with a 10pm cut-off. If the cut-off falls during an inning in progress, the inning will be completed - unless the home team is in the lead, in which case only the top of the inning in progress must be completed. NOTE: OABR 4.12(a)(2) will NOT apply to a Friday night A grade game called (terminated) because of the cut-off time before 9 innings have been played or 8 1/2 with home team in the lead - i.e. the game will NOT be suspended if shortened due to the time limit.

A game that is tied when the cut-off time is reached may be continued past such time, at the discretion of the Umpire in Chief, with due consideration of local curfews and regulations. A regulation game called with a tied score will be a suspended game, as per OABR 4.12(a)(6).

The 10-run rule will apply at 7 innings and a regulation game must be 5 innings (or 4 1/2 if the home team is in the lead).

Again, I believe this is already the current practice/interpretation, but spelling it out clearly and definitely in the By-Laws would be helpful and welcomed.

[scorekeeper]

Oh, and something else not mentioned in the By-Laws is whether a Sunday A grade game that is, say only into the 7th inning when it gets too dark to continue, is to be a suspended game per 4.12(a)(4). I don't believe we are suspending those games if called with a team in the lead and innings equal (or after top is complete when home team leads). Does anyone know if that is stipulated in the by-laws? (Sorry, they're not in front of me at the moment).

[bobbybillabong]

I reckon the key to understanding a "time game" is the scheduled finish time, not the start time, and not the duration. Here's why.

There seem to be at least three types of 'time' games 1) the 'at least 2 hour game'; 2) the 'no more than 2 hour game'; 3) the 'maybe 2.5 hour game'.

#1 is the most common, #2 comes into being on a Major A double header, #3 is the Maj A night game. The reason for #1 and #2 seems to be management of the schedule across a day so that time overruns don't snowball and affect the last, and most senior, game. I guess the reason for #3 is to put a realistic endpoint for games for both players and neighbours of field with lights.

Game start is problematic because games rarely start exactly on time and all sorts of things outside the umpire's control can affect it. Game duration (e.g., 2 hours after start) has a similar problem if game starts late. Also, game start is open to interpretation depending on whose opinion on when the game starts holds sway.

But scheduled finish time is driven solely by the clock and the umpire.

So if the Bylaws and fixture were expressed in start and finish times, and the different 'time' games were expressed in terms of scheduled finish it might make things a lot clearer.

E.g.

In daytime with single games in multiple grades, each game finishes when the last innings or half innings, depending on scores, commenced before the scheduled finish time is complete.

In daytime with games in multiple grades and a Maj A grade double header, each game finishes at the scheduled finish time.

In a night game, the game finishes at the scheduled finish time, or after 9 innings, whichever comes sooner.

For day games the scheduled finish time is 2 hours after the scheduled start time; for night games it is 2.5 hours.

Using the scheduled finish time, which might mean calling a game in the middle of an at bat (on a double header day), means no-one can argue the timing.

[wildpitch23]

Bobby, your reasonings are all sensible. I am unsure of the first explanation in your example, however...."each game finishes when the last innings commenced before the scheduled finish". Do you mean that the game keeps going until the finish time and then reverts back to the last completed innings, or half, if the home side is ahead? If you do, then this is like softball and leaves the game situation wide open to coaches wasting time etc to their advantage when time is near.

I think that all innings started should be completed. Bring back the "ten minute" rule that is often quoted at games. ie. Do not commence a new innings if there are ten minutes or less until the scheduled finish time.

[bobbybillabong]

Mar 8, 2010 15:25:04 GMT 10 wildpitch23 said:

Bobby, your reasonings are all sensible. I am unsure of the first explanation in your example, however...."each game finishes when the last innings commenced before the scheduled finish". Do you mean that the game keeps going until the finish time and then reverts back to the last completed innings, or half, if the home side is ahead? If you do, then this is like softball and leaves the game situation wide open to coaches wasting time etc to their advantage when time is near.

I think that all innings started should be completed. Bring back the "ten minute" rule that is often quoted at games. ie. Do not commence a new innings if there are ten minutes or less until the scheduled finish time.

In the quoted situation, an innings commenced before the scheduled finish time (e.g., top of the 6th starts 5 minutes before scheduled finish) is completed, unless the home team is leading after its time in defence, in which case only the half innings need be completed. In practice, this could be 10 or 20 minutes after the scheduled finish time.

The coaches wasting time issue is where the umpire as game manager has to take a hand.

The only thing with the 10 minute 'rule' is that it shortens the game. In my experience, unless a team is getting flogged (and then the 10-run rule takes effect), players want to keep playing as long as they can - they play because they enjoy it. And why 10 minute, and not 15 or 20?

I think one thing this thread has shown is that the bylaws aren't terribly clear, and there is a lot of 'handed down' understanding of what the situation is.

[QBUA]

I have spoken to BQI about the Bylaws in the past.
One way I, and the QBUA, can help with the interpretation and how we rule on such laws, is to write the bylaws up in the way we interpret them, along the lines of rule book style, with consultation with the BQI and enter them into our own umpires website.
We have, admittedly, not use our website enough.
Then, all concerned, could look up our website for an interpretation.

I am looking at formatting it as per the bylaws, then add our interpretation in bold letters with that section.

I can not do this over night, but I will have time in the off season, for the 10/11 season and for the Junior Championships late this year.

We have a meeting tonight, I'll raise it for discussion.
Happy to hear your ideas.

[kylebyrne]

Wow, I honestly cant believe something so simple is so confusing over there...

[wildpitch23]

You're not kidding, Kyle. Try to have a read of our competition by-laws...makesa for a good laugh!!

[snoball]

In the quoted situation, an innings commenced


In baseball --
It's an inning, not an innings (unless you're talking plural). We scored a run in the second inning. We played 5 innings. He pitched only one inning.

It's also a game, not a match.

And, a hit is never lovely.

[wildpitch23]

Thank you, Snoball for pointing out the grammatical errors. I wish that these were the only problems with the wording of our by-laws...they would be easily fixed!!

[44]

snoball said:

And, a hit is never lovely.

You sound like an old pitcher Snowy mate ... ;D

[bobbybillabong]

Mar 10, 2010 16:25:59 GMT 10 snoball said:

In the quoted situation, an innings commenced
In baseball --
It's an inning, not an innings (unless you're talking plural). We scored a run in the second inning. We played 5 innings. He pitched only one inning.

Thanks snoball for the pickup. Just to show I'm not alone in this goof, this from the GBL Bylaws: "An inning starts immediately after the final out of the previous innings." BL 3.4, 3.12

It's called having a bob each way. :-)