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Post by 17starter on Sept 10, 2009 19:48:02 GMT 10
What is the rule when a batted ball leaves the field of play in fair territory( close to foul pole) but because of its flight path, ends up crossing the line of the foul after it has LEFT THE FIELD. Most of my experience has been the umpire calling it foul.Including Mr Bill Stanley(RIP)
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Post by 44 on Sept 10, 2009 20:51:17 GMT 10
Hope either Kyle Byrne or QBUA can clarify, but that has to be a Homer 17 if I was Umping (level 0 BTW).
If the ball hits the Foul pole ( should be called a fair pole) it is a homer and no one knew if the ball was landing fair or foul past the HR Fence.
A Ball going yard in fair must be a HR surely. Where the ball was landing is irrelevant.
Good Question though...
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Post by 17starter on Sept 10, 2009 21:20:56 GMT 10
Hope either Kyle Byrne or QBUA can clarify, but that has to be a Homer 17 if I was Umping (level 0 BTW). If the ball hits the Foul pole ( should be called a fair pole) it is a homer and no one knew if the ball was landing fair or foul past the HR Fence. A Ball going yard in fair must be a HR surely. Where the ball was landing is irrelevant. Ok now part 2, How would you go about arguing this point with an umpire .Is it a judgment call that can't be questioned? Good Question though... |
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Post by QBUA on Sept 14, 2009 18:37:35 GMT 10
Gentlemen, I see the forum has started up again and with a good question too.
OABR Rule 2.26
Yes, the Foul pole is in Fair Territory, no one knows why it is not called the FAIR POLE.
The foul line stops at the playing field fence line, both the foul line and the playing field fence continue perpendicularly up wards.
A battered ball left the field of play in flight, over FAIR TERRITORY, HOME RUN.
Even if the balls path bends around the foul pole, beyond the pole, and has left the field of play in fair territory. HOME RUN.
All umpires are now instructed, when there is a possibility of a home run ball, to watch the ball leave the field of play.
In the past, it was mainly the responsibility of the umpire with the responsibility of the ball, NOW, all umpires working that game, are to watch the ball, from 2 umpires to 7 umpires, all should be watching the ball.
WHY is it so: If there is any dispute with the fair or foul call on such a ball, all umpires have a different angle on the ball and the foul pole. Therefore, all umpires can give their opinion, if the ball was fair or foul.
Without getting technical, I hope this has helped.
This is a hard call at some grounds on a night game, if the ball is hit down the foul line and goes above or close to above the hieght of the lights, and you don't get a shine off the ball from the lights, you can lose the ball, then you may be looking for the ball in the area just above the ground, it has to come down sometime.
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Post by 44 on Sept 15, 2009 14:11:49 GMT 10
QBUA, Your one line says it all : "The foul line stops at the playing field fence line" Plus the Rule number explained. 17starters frustration is real. Why and how did the Umpires he experienced get this so wrong? I realise that Rules need to be explained in depth, but from most players point of view, they require a quick and simple Black or White answer. 17's questions are very well thought out where as most Major A players would just be happy to argue with Umps Game day all day long. IMO.. EVERY MAJOR A Player in GBL should be Level "0" Ump accredited... NO EXEMPTION  It's not that hard to spend one night on the Course. |
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Post by hank1044 on Sept 22, 2009 4:49:23 GMT 10
As explained. The ball is indicated fair initially, then pointed as out of the ball park, repetitatively, then the famliar rotating the pointed finger by the umpire responsible for the call. 2 man system / 3 man system / no one on base / men on base, dictate who has the call. Pre game meeting, along with, and or pre pitch / pre at bat signals. I don't necessarily agree with all umpires watching th flight path of the ball, as depending on what system they are working, the situation prior to the pitch / at bat. Umpires do have other responsibilities " Pause then Read " outside of watching the flight of the ball " React ". Hank Lemoine Umpire Winnipeg Canada.
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Post by QBUA on Sept 22, 2009 18:03:30 GMT 10
Hank, welcome to the forum.
Nice to see another umpire here.
Yes, we experienced umpires do know what responsibilities we have, before the game, before the pitch and during the play.
This situation with all umpires watching the ball leave the FIELD OF PLAY, is a new responsibility given to us, we started doing it about 8 months ago.
My STATE DIRECTOR OF UMPIRES, who officiated at the CHINESE OLYMPICS, and now at the WORLD CUP, informed us of the new responsibility.
Pause, read and react, yes, we don't just look up.
Base umpires can possibly still see the runners touching the bases and any obstructions that may occur, but still see the ball leave the FIELD OF PLAY.
The reason for this new responsibility is to make sure that the ball was iether FAIR or FOUL.
All umpires have a different view of the ball and the foul pole, not just relying on one umpire.
Lets say we are doing the Canadian National Championships, Championship game, 9 innings, 2 out, 1 run to win, and the umpire making the call, calls it foul, through no fault of his own.
Your the manager of the offensive team.
What would you do, ask for consultation with the other umpires, or just sit in the dugout punching the wall and hurling abuse at the umpire.
For the seconds it takes for a ball to leave the field of play, why shouldn't all umpires watch the ball.
We do not wish to change responsibilities any where else in the world. This is what is happening in Australia.
People, I indicated in a past posting Rule (2.26) this Rule is for FAIR TERRITORY.
Rule (2.55) is the rule for FAIR BALL.
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Post by hank1044 on Sept 23, 2009 2:27:17 GMT 10
Nice to be here moderator. F.Y.I. Canada was lucky enough to have 2 umpires from here in Winnipeg to work the Olympic Games also. They came back with a variety of unique differences, of which we were asked to incorporate here. Example: The swing, no catch call on the 3rd strike. I don't recall anything said on the above scenario. To answer / comment on the Canadian National Championships question / statement. Probably be a 4 man system. U1 or U3 makes the call going out. PU goes up either line to cover either of his responsibilities. U2 does his thing. Whoever makes the call U1 or U2 is backed up by all the Umpires no matter what. Manager of the Offensive Team can argue all he wants. It's foul. No umpire / umpires worth his / there salt would ever gather to change a call on a manager's request. Only if the umpire that made the call, asks his fellow crew members. Here's one for ya ! Say the call is fair. All the umpires are looking at the flight of the ball, and at the same time the call is made, the BR doesn't touch 1st base. The defensive manger comes out and appeals. Ooops !!! Remember when Mark McGuire in his excitement, missed 1st base, on his record breaking homerun, a few years ago. Remember when the 1st base coach, while high fiveing Mark, saw him missing the base, and yelled / grabbed him, to come back and touch the base. " Rule 7.09 h " Guess what the call would have been by the U1 umpire if an appeal was done. If you remember, no one on the crew did a thing, and the manager didn't come out to appeal. There would have been a lynching if that happened. When I saw this happen. I thought ! God help the MLB if an appeal happens ! MLB has instant replay for things like fan interference. The Umpires instigate the review not Managers, to get the call correct. The Umpire Manual is pretty clear on calls. All crew members have a responsibility on a given play. One guy makes the call. Your suggestion that those seconds that it takes to watch the ball leave the field of play, are the split seconds that another call is missed. I would not even think about being the offensive coach, as any umpire, once again, worth his salt, has no vested interest in what goes on in dugouts. There are more important concerns for the Blues Brothers and Sisters. Hope this change works out with my brothers and sisters in Aussie ! Hank Lemoine " An old Western Districts Bulldog " Now on the Dark Side ! Great site Sir !
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Post by kylebyrne on Sept 23, 2009 14:08:59 GMT 10
The instruction regarding all umpires looking at the ball when it leaves the field of play is not just an australian instruction, its was changed in the big leagues and it was also changed in the Minor leagues. The instruction isnt to watch the ball for the entire flight, yes base umpires have different resposibilties etc, but the instruction is that at the moment the ball leaves the field of ball all umpires should be taking a quick glance at the ball.. just like on all plays, umpires are to switch their eyes between the ball and runner....
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Post by QBUA on Sept 23, 2009 16:53:25 GMT 10
Hank, I'm not here to argue with you.
The people who ask about plays on this forum are varied between know responsibilities, knowing Rules, interpretations and varied in their experience with baseball.
We welcome people who are new to baseball, or new to the umpiring experience to put they comments or situations on the forum for explanation.
I try not to make it too technical for them, however, I do try and inform them of what an umpire maybe looking for, or looking at.
They are not umpires with alot of experience, if I have a problem with one of their situations, I will go for help myself.
I don't claim to be the best umpire in the world, and have not had the experience of others, but I do spend time on this forum to help others understand umpiring or rules.
If I offended you with my comments about the Canadian League, sorry for that perception, but you do come on here with a strong attitude.
Australia is different the other countries with their baseball communities, most of our country does not grow up with baseball in their veins.
It's not in the top 2 sports in the country.
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Post by hank1044 on Sept 24, 2009 5:18:43 GMT 10
Woops ! Not here to argue either. No offence taken ! No intention to come on strong ! Just an offer to the site for discussion. The discussion is excellent. A great site ! Did spend some time in the early 80 in Brisbane playing. Officiating was good ! I also mentor young umpires here in the Peg. Great fun ! Yea ! Hockey and the other Football is big here ! Again ! Great Site !
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